(no subject)

[tavellafic]

Not to put a damper on the logical fallacies running rampant today, but cause, fault, malice, and intent are not the same thing, and where blame is assigned depends on proper definitions of them. Justin is undoubtedly the cause of the Pro Bowl ban -- that'd be his hand ripping off Janet's clothes and starting the whole cascade. Justin just surely had no malice towards JC in this -- does anyone doubt that there was anything going on in his head besides 'Whoo! Janet!' and 'Whoo! Publicity!'? I even went hunting through the friendslist of some of the people most vocal about attacking that and found not a single accusation of malice. I'm sure there's one that exists somewhere out there, but mostly people seem to be attacking a straw man.

But lack of malice does not mean no fault. The guy who sets off fireworks in a field in the middle of the California dry season probably isn't thinking anything but "Whoo! Sparklies!" but that doesn't mean if houses burn down that people don't get to blame him. And before the posts about 'She said Justin was as bad as an arsonist!' start, that's an example, not a equation.

So it comes down to our fourth exciting contestant, intent. If Justin thought he was merely ripping away a false front, he's not at fault. If he was an equal partner with Janet, well, yes, it is his fault. Along with Janet, and to a lesser degree the media et al that have been helping the fire along. It's quite a drunken party out there in that dry field.

So people are being accused of tinhattery because they don't believe that the spin from a star's PR is necessarily entirely truthful. And that's just nuts, and unworthy of some of the smart people that have been ranting about it.

Comments

[chreesko.livejournal.com]

I've been trying to find the tinhats, but I can't. :-( I thought it might just be because I have a teeny tiny friends list.

I do think Justin bears some responsibility for the fallout, but I can't help but save my anger for the NFL and the FCC, who have taken it upon themselves to dole out punishments to everyone but Justin. That most certainly is not his fault. I don't really like Justin, but at this point I can't get worked up about the fact that he didn't think about the consequences of his actions, if indeed he knew what would happen. I can, however, get pissed off at the NFL for taking it out on everyone else.

But. Whee! Kerfuffle. Kerfuffle kerfuffle kerfuffle! Sorry. I go now. It's just so much fun to say. KERFUFFLE!

[swabian.livejournal.com]

I'm having a problem with your logic in regard to the intent part. Justin did intend to rip the garment off, does it really matter what he thought would be behind it? Example: Say I shoot my gun in the air, as people are wont to do around here at New Year's Eve, and the bullet on it's way down hurts a person. I had no malice towards that person, no intent to hurt them but I'm still responsible for their injury, right?

Following my line of thought, no matter what Justin believed to be the end result of his bodice ripping, he had every intent to rip said bodice and thus is responsible for the consequences.

This is me, playing what-if games. :)

Re:

[tavellafic.livejournal.com]

I'm having a problem with your logic in regard to the intent part. Justin did intend to rip the garment off, does it really matter what he thought would be behind it?

Oh, it absolutely does. The classic example of it is the stage gun -- if you fire a gun at someone in a movie scene, in good faith believing it to be a prop gun, and someone deliberately or accidentally has put a live bullet in it, you aren't at fault for any death or injury. Michael Massee wasn't charged with anything in Brandon Lee's death, for example.

Re:

[swabian.livejournal.com]

Well, in that case, it all comes back to whether I believe him or not. ::contemplates::

[fluffontop.livejournal.com]

Justin is undoubtedly the cause of the Pro Bowl ban

Seeing a female breast being "exposed" in an artistic, and one nano-second long, illustration a line in a song, can not be that traumatic or distressful to watch, no matter what age you are, and the absolute ridiculousness of the cancelation of other artists because of it is entirely the fault of the "outraged" people who made that decision. To start assigning blame to Justin is to go along with this silliness and as a fan of anyone I would say this was the time to actually stand behind both Justin and Janet Jackson.
But that's mostly just my gut-feeling about the whole thing. Other people, evidentally, feel differently.

--B.C.

[without-me.livejournal.com]

Word.